Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

@liddi

Please don’t take my desire to clarify Chinese grammatical constructs as questioning your expertise in the Chinese language. As evidenced by all the amazing translations you’ve generously provided, I understand you are highly proficient in the language. Your skills in the language far exceed mine since I’m barely fluent and wouldn’t even consider myself literate. My main method for reading Chinese is to put the text into Google Translate and then read the ping yin and translations :) I appreciate all the explanations you’ve provided about the language. It’s helpful to my learning and understanding of Chinese.

As an engineer, I was taught to validate solutions instead of relying solely on a single expert opinion. Although I’m impressed by your knowledge of the language, I cannot assume that your knowledge of Chinese is complete. For some questions, I will cross-reference your answers with other expert opinions. Generative AI (e.g. ChatGPT) is very powerful, and usually a good starting point for research. That said, I’m aware that GenAI can sometimes hallucinate responses, so I generally validate those responses with the knowledge of experts, such as yourself and/or other expert sources.

For the specific phrase that we are discussing, I tweaked the question to ChatGPT 4.0 to be more specific. The question and output can be found below:

Can "情人蛊已经被王母解了" be interpreted to mean "The Lover's Gu had already been explained by the Royal Mother”?

Yes, "情人蛊已经被王母解了" can indeed be interpreted as "The Lover's Gu had already been explained by the Royal Mother." In this sentence:

• "情人蛊" (qíng rén gū) refers to "Lover's Gu," likely a concept from folklore involving love-related magic or a curse.
• "已经" (yǐ jīng) means "already," suggesting that the action was completed before the current point in time.
• "被" (bèi) indicates a passive voice, pointing to the action being done by someone else.
• "王母" (wáng mǔ) refers to "Royal Mother," a figure often associated with high status or mythological contexts in Chinese culture.
• "解了" (jiě le) can mean both "resolved" and "explained," with "了" marking the completion of the action.

Thus, the phrase can be understood to mean that the Royal Mother had already explained (or perhaps resolved) something mystical or problematic associated with the Lover's Gu.

I cross-referenced the meaning of “解” in Google translate and in the Pleco dictionary and they both seem to indicate that “解”, by itself, can mean “to explain”. Finally, during lunch today, I spoke to three co-workers who are native Chinese speakers and all did their undergraduate studies in China. They all confirmed that the response given by ChatGPT is correct: "情人蛊已经被王母解了" can be interpreted as "The Lover's Gu had already been explained by the Royal Mother” and is grammatically correct in this usage of “解” to mean “explain.”

Of course, they also all agreed that “解” in the context of "情人蛊已经被王母解了" is ambiguous and can mean “to resolve”, “to explain”, and many other interpretations. Anyway, I appreciate your guidance on this question.

 HeadInTheClouds:

The idea that WYL/XY is some sort of innocent, unaware little lamb doesn't work for me. She's cunning and shrewd enough and weighs her gains and losses before agreeing to that investment pact with Jing. Once she regained her real identity, it seems like I'm supposed to buy that her IQ dropped to the mid-double digits and she doesn't know this and that; she couldn't figure out this or that. Nope, what she does is engage in some self-hypnotizing.

Totally agree that she is a shrewd calculating person and her IQ never dropped when she resumed her princess identity. I also agree she tried to self-delude to some extent. I do question how much of her self-delusion should be attributed to each factor:

• Pure selfishness and/or insecurity
• Obligations to CX and her family
• Going along with XL's selfless desire not to pursue the relationship for XY's well-being
• Tong Hua being extra tricky in her writing and deceiving readers into thinking that XY is self-deluding more than she actually is

I also question how successful she is in self-hypnotizing. How much did she believe her own BS vs how much did she know and acknowledge the truth deep down, but just feel helpless to do anything about it.

@solarlunareclipse

I don't take offence in your questions. You are not wrong to not depend on just my interpretation. I am in the technical field as well and I do not rely on one source either, however supposedly infallible. In my course of reading / translating, I do use ChatGPT and other AI translations as a reference especially when I am searching my mind for a word which eludes me - these are great tools, while not necessarily always accurate or sufficiently detailed. 

Exactly as you said, I am just one person. I don't claim to be expert in any way, particularly in Chinese. I only tell you what I know,  and exactly because I do know my limitations as only one person also prone to mistakes, what I do explain, particularly when you go into the nitty-gritty of the language, I have also cross-referenced with multiple dictionaries and references, discussed extensively and counter-verified with others far more knowledgeable and were educated in Chinese from childhood to adulthood as well. I threw the exact same sentence to them and they agree that just because 解 can mean "explain" and the sentence is grammatically correct, 解了 should not be used to mean "already explained". It is irrelevant to the context of the sentence.  The word itself simply does not mean "explain" when used in that way. The way I was explained to (that word in contention!), simply substituting a known meaning of a word in a sentence does not automatically mean the meaning actually applies.

Anyway, you can take my explanation if you think it makes sense to you. If not, just go ahead and ignore it. We are all entitled to different opinions anyway. 

 nathsketch:

Just a little parentheses, but I found a Jinger on Reddit this morning. It's always the same. It never fails. 

So I took the bait. How could I not? Got a bunch of nonsense as a reply (XL is cheating her with the bugs, it's a manipulation device, etc.), which is nothing new, but the cherry on top was "this is not mdl btw". Ahahahahahahaha of course it's one of the MDL's usual suspects. 

If I had a yuan for each time I encountered the same recycled arguments, I could buy myself a real Xiang Liu.

I wonder what version of the book they're reading/analyzing. It must be The Jingers' Cut.

End of parentheses. 

I'm confused! How is he cheating her with the Lovers Bugs? How is it a manipulation device? This is the first time I've seen these arguments. I know that they do their best to minimise/dismiss the Lovers Bugs - for obvious reasons - but these are new.

 HeadInTheClouds:

10 points to XY for her ability to convey so much with one object :-). As they say; a picture paints a thousand words.

-100 points for XY for not realizing that XL had already answered this -- at least in the drama.  He accepted the Lovers Bug while they were both sitting in his giant clam shell.

 Kokuto:

-100 points for XY for not realizing that XL had already answered this -- at least in the drama.  He accepted the Lovers Bug while they were both sitting in his giant clam shell.

Yes, but answering is not the same as accepting it. XY made the crystal ball 4 years prior, so she was aware of her feelings way before sending it, but the fact that she also had it sent raised an invitation too. XL wasn't there when she woke up after their 37 years, XY went forward with the crystal ball.

About the jingers nonsense, LOL. I guess they believe XL was trying to control XY through the bugs or something? It's nonsense, as you said. 

 HeadInTheClouds:

In the crystal ball, the mermaid is already sitting in the clamp shell. She'd already accepted - no chasing or singing required - and all she was waiting for was the merman to come and join her. The tableau in the crystal ball could be a 3 for the price of one communication piece:

1) A confession of her feelings - I want to be the mermaid in your clamp shell, will you come and join me?

2) An expression of how she perceived their relationship. She's willing and waiting for his response

3) A plead, a request, an appeal for him to give her an answer. 

^^^ Exactly this. I wonder if the mermaid sitting in the clam shell can also be seen as XY acknowledging that the merman had already chased and built a home for her. In other words, acknowledging that she knew XL had feelings for her by accepting the voodoo bug, by accompanying her and patiently teaching her archery as FFB, by attentively taking care of her for 37 years under the sea, and by being there for her when she was feeling down. She wasn't oblivious to XL's feelings for her, although she might have questioned the depth of his feelings—especially since he'd taken every opportunity after 37 years to push her away. She also knew from his "the best ending for a general is to die on the battlefield" comment that he wasn't planning to choose her. I think the crystal ball was her last attempt at reversing that decision.

The crystal ball was the confession and plea. The letter was the ultimatum. 

“In two months I am getting married. This is the last poison I will make for you. Please accept with a smile.”

-- Vol 2 Ch 14 (Chapter 31)

I read the double-speak as: "If you don't accept my confession, I will belong to someone else and will no longer be able to be in your life. Can you accept that?"

 HeadInTheClouds:

10 points to XY for her ability to convey so much with one object :-). As they say; a picture paints a thousand words.

Agreed. Some think that XY should have been more direct in her confession and plea. But the way I see it, XY is doing exactly what XL did for her. XL never openly confessed, nor did he try to force XY into anything; he subtly hinted at his intentions and allowed XY to choose for herself. Yes, it can be frustrating for us readers that the two weren't more open with their feelings towards each other, but I wouldn't be able to say with confidence that XL would have preferred XY to be more open. On the contrary, I think he probably appreciated that she put it all out there for him and let him choose.

@kokuto

I already knew your take on these events are very different than the way I see them, but I am trying to see them from your pov too and honestly if that's what TH had in mind, than that makes XL even more pathetic than jing. Would he be that pathetic though? I don't think so, honestly.

You make him look as if love was all that he cared about, which IMO is not accurate. Jing was the only one out of them 4 who's only purpose in life was love/XY. The way I see it XL's loyalty to his soldiers equals CX's desire for power and XY's wish to find a forever companion. I personally don't even believe XL ever tried to pursue XY, as FFB told her once, she shouldn't care what's deep in his heart, because they are just temporarily companions, seeking a bit of happiness togheter. I don't understand what makes you believe that he wanted more out of their relationship. Do you see him pursuing XY and make her give up everything, just so he can spend a few days each month with her? As FFB he sometimes dissapeared for months at a time, he was too busy being a general to tie XY up to him, he had other priorities in life than love and that's a fact. Again, to think the army wasn't his main interest is like saying the throne wasn't CX's main purpose, which I personally don't believe is true. 

You say XY wasn't clear enough with the crystal ball, I disagree. IMO XY was very straightforward with it and XL understood her message very well, that's why the novel ends with him sending it back to her.