Statistics show that up to the age of 30, the split is more or less equal.Random Series:
What is more or less equal? You gave numbers from above 30 but not below. And those above 30 years of age were not more or less equal.
If you are going to throw out statistics then show the source otherwise they are pointless.
I am certainly one or two generation older than many MDL users, but I find this sterotyping really outdated.
When your own statistics (which you have shown no source) show this to be the case then the stereotyping is not outdated. When I tried to find statistics on this by searching on google I couldn't find shit so I'd like to see your source.
What I did find though was this.
http://www.daehandrama.com/1285/
"With no surprise, the majority of respondents were female (88.6%, vs. 6.4% male).
Yes it's not the actual viewer numbers but it's pretty saying that nearly 90% of the people responding to a KD (US) survey were women..... If they made a survey about football or any male dominated (in terms of viewership) sport you'd probably see the same results just with 90% being male responders.
If you think that a spouse who discovers that their partner has cheated and remains in a relationship with that person is a definition of being stupid then I can only response by saying you have a lot to learn and that based on your view of what being stupid is there are literally 10's if not 100's of millions of stupid people, and that includes yours truly.mvfoley1215:
Yea they are stupid but depending on the context it make sense why they'd "forgive" and stay in such a situation. My comment about the ML being stupid is based on his context which is him being handsome while also having an available good looking girl.
If your wife cheats on you with your superior at work while is also pretty much fine with you getting fired for her to keep the secret. There is only one reason people stay with such a woman and that's because they are ugly as fuck and have no chance of getting an equally beautiful woman. In real life no man with a girl at arms reach would stay with the wife. That's the context. The context is not just his wife cheating. The context is that the ML is also handsome and has an alternative at arms reach.
EVERYONE. And especially where are children involved if you think divorce is the only or even best solution, well as I stated before you have a lot to learn.
The child was not involved - he didn't even live with the family. And frankly the child is going to survive a divorce. In real life no guy stay with a wife cheating on him with his superior trying to get him fired while having an alternative and his child is not even living with him. And yea everyone make mistakes but not everyone make the same type of "mistakes".
Regardless of what happened to their relationship in the end, calling their decision stupid is honestly immature and ignorant on your part.
Yea no it is stupid.
We have had some extremely challenging times, times that would make their marriage problems look like child plays to be frank, but we never quit on the marriage, we always came through those times and we are better people, better parents and grandparents for having done so.
Yea because most likely neither you nor your wife could easily get any better (or had enough faith that you could) - that's why. You keep talking about your own personal life but did your wife cheat on you with your superior while also scheming to get you fired? Did you have a younger beautiful woman in love with you at the time?
Yea you might have stayed faithful to your wife even after she cheated on you but you only did so because you didn't have a younger beautiful woman ready to ride you - lets be honest here.
But I could on many levels identify with the male lead, although I personally doubt that I could have resisted IU's advances like he did, but then he had a much stronger moral character than I do, a weakness I am all too familiar with.
Yea because he's unrealistic as fuck. You not being able to resist IU's advances after finding your wife cheating on you with your superior is not having less "moral character" unless you think it's a sign of a bad moral character to not resist under such circumstances. If that's the case then frankly all I can say is you should probably update your morality software.
But to call his strength stupid demonstrates a rather shallow personal characteristic.
He is not strong - he is dumb as fuck. He could have gone with a potentially loyal woman and enjoyed life instead he rejected her for a harder life and you are here calling that strength? He is braindead and unrealistic as fuck.
On the issue of target audience, I think the claim that all kdramas are written solely for a female audience is very narrow minded, immature and ignorant.
All KD are not written solely for a female audience only 95% are. You are ignorant if you can't see that - not me.
"You seem to think, at least the best that I can determine, is that if the drama deals with relationships and/or emotions then it is somehow written for women."
Yea no - how it deals with relationships and emotions is how you determine whether it's written by and/or for women. A drama not primarily targeting female audience would never have had the ML not fuck the FL after finding his wife cheating with his superior. The way ML is written is how a woman would write a male character.
Of course there are exceptions, but they are few.
Same goes to the audience that watch KD even if majority are female and the target audience is primarily women.
EDIT:
If the gender of the ML was changed from male to female and the drama panned out exactly the same way. The rating of the drama would be way less and the number of women complaining about the FL being dumb/stupid would skyrocket...
The source is Statista, and it is for Korea, which I believe much more relevant than USA, because you are throwing a whole new sets of variables.
A link to the actual study.... If you can't then your numbers are not very reliable but regardless even your potentially fake numbers show that majority are women.
At least I actually gave a source that I quoted directly. You are potentially just throwing out numbers and then randomly writing the name of a site with countless statistics as if you've actually given a source.
If you did that for any school work asking for a source you'd fail the class. I know this is not a classroom but if you can't provide a source to verify numbers when using statistics then they are not really worth much as they are very unreliable.
Why is that impossible? Are you saying every single man on earth would surely leave his cheating wife and sleep with IU if they were in his shoes 100%? Isn't that a horrible claim?Archie_A:
There are crazy people in this world who do unimaginable things. So of course I can't factually claim that not a single human being would behave any specific ways. I assume people understand that when someone write that no one would behave like this then that pretty much mean you'd be hard pressed to find an exception - might exist one guy on earth who would but you are gonna search for a damn long time.
Why is this a horrible claim. This is only a horrible claim if you think a guy sleeping with IU and leaving their wife in that situation would be horrible. Your phrasing seems to indicate that such a guy would be horrible.
The wife cheated on him with his superior at work. Was fine knowing her husband was getting fired by said lover. There is nothing horrible about the husband sleeping and starting a new life with another beautiful woman in love with him.
That said even if we say that it's horrible to claim this then it's kind of irrelevant to me. I write what I think is the truth - regardless of the truth being horrible or not.
As I wrote before if the sex of ML and wife was reversed then the drama rating would go down and this entire site would be women complaining about FL not ending up with the younger handsome guy instead of staying with a cheating husband who was fine with his lover getting the FL fired.
And third because if this is the truth, where does forgiveness come in for men who've been cheated on.. until he's had his pound of flesh or till he meets a woman who's into him? Or just pretend to forgive since he can't meet anyone else to sleep with? Are you still against forgiveness even when his wife did a 180 and tried to help him?
There is no such thing as unconditional forgiveness - maybe besides parent and child. Yeah men forgive when cheated on if he can't get anything better or don't have faith or time to get anything better - it's that simple. If someone think they will actually find a man that will forgive them for cheating on him while another woman is at arms reach and is beautiful then frankly they are going to search for a very long time. The guy that wrote they forgave their wife even himself doubted whether he would if IU was into him. I can already say he wouldn't.
When women forgive they don't do so unconditional either. They do so because they see a benefit in forgiving their husband. Maybe he provides a decent lifestyle. Maybe they do so for the benefit of their child which benefit themselves also. Maybe they do so because they don't have faith they'll find anyone better and wont get cheated on by him either.
Women who actually believe they will find someone better or maybe already have someone better (long term) will not forgive either. They might also forgive due to negative reputation of being divorced for women - so they wanna avoid that. If society didn't put any negative feelings on divorce and a woman had a better man in their reach then they'd not forgive either.
In the case of a man he's going to be made a fool of more if he forgives a cheating wife - in such a situation as ML in this drama - than divorcing her.
Are you still against forgiveness even when his wife did a 180 and tried to help him?
Yes as long as the ML is handsome and has an equally or more beautiful woman at arms reach then him staying - with a wife having done what the wife did in this drama - is just dumb writing regardless.
Also as I wrote it's been some time since I watched this drama but as far as I remember the wife only changed her mind because her lover turned out to be shit and she realized this (EDIT: After checking some episodes again - with the help of FL showing her a recording of her lover).
She changed after being caught and realizing her lover was not sincere with her - she didn't come clean before being caught. With that in mind why are you giving her points for "changing" when she was pretty much put into a corner? She "changed" because that was better for herself in that situation.
The writer needs to reliable show why staying with the wife would be the best choice (from the perspective of ML) which is very hard (if not pretty much impossible) to do when you have another beautiful woman into ML.
It is a horrible claim because that means you don't think forgiving her is an option. That choosing forgiveness is somehow weaker than choosing revenge or to leave? Do you genuinely believe that forgiving is easier or weaker than leaving or revenge?? I know truth is not always sweet, but I don't know how saying forgiveness is off the table is not horrible. Only a perfect person can claim that because they never need to be forgiven anything and perfect none of us are.
He can forgive her for the hurt she caused him but still move on with a better woman. I never wrote forgiveness is "weaker" or "easier" I said it's idiotic in the situation of ML. Why would anyone stay with her when it's not easier and the reward is worse? That's straight up idiocy. ML get nothing good out of forgiving her as he has alternatives.
A handsome guy with a beautiful woman at arms reach have no reason to stay with a backstabbing wife (I'm really trying my hardest not to use more fitting words instead of wife).. Also as I wrote the ML was second choice. She was ready to divorce him but the recording of the lover admitting he was only using her etc. made her realize that the lover was not sincere.
You seem to think that people backstabbing their spouse have a right to be forgiven by the person they hurt - they don't. They don't deserve to burn in hell either though but they don't have a right to demand forgiveness - they can ask for forgiveness and the person being hurt have a right to decide what works better for themselves and their happiness. If that includes not forgiving then that doesn't make them morally bad.
And trying to portray a husband not forgiving his cheating wife as morally in the wrong is just crazy.
Saying forgiveness is off the table is not horrible because people who have been hurt have the right to process that hurt however they feel is best for themselves. On the other hand then it's horrible to demand they forgive or claim them as morally less good for not doing so. They were hurt by someone else. That someone else have to accept the potential punishment of not being forgiven if the person being hurt feels it's better not to forgive.
Also just to make it clear - I never said forgiveness is by default always off the table. I even acknowledged earlier that some people might forgive depending on their circumstances. What I said was in the context of ML forgiving the wife is idiotic writing when he's handsome and has a beautiful potentially loyal woman at arms reach. If the writer made the ML old and ugly without any real possibility of getting another woman and the alternative was being lonely for the rest of his life and die alone then yea it would be more understandable that he'd forgive the wife.
In the case of ML that's just not the case.
Only a perfect person can claim that because they never need to be forgiven anything and perfect none of us are.
That's simply wrong. All mistakes are not equal and when you hurt other people you don't have a right to be forgiven. And just because someone else is not perfect does not mean he has to forgive everyone else treating him badly. Just like he can't demand forgiveness from people he has hurt even if they are not perfect people themselves.
PDH had none of this reasons to stay, (his kid was abroad, the important people knew and his friends and family wouldn't desert him), he did it because he loved his wife and wanted to make it work. I don't know if it did at the end but he wasn't giving up without a fight and sleeping with IU is giving up
PDH decided to not sleep with IU and stay with his wife because it's a fictional story written by a woman while also having the target audience as the female demographic. The writer either got no clue how men in such a situation would behave or purposely wrote the behavior as she did because she knows her target audience.
Also sleeping with IU is not giving up - sleeping with IU is moving on to something better. The wife gave up when she decided to divorce and cheat on her spouse with his superior and turned a blind eye to him getting unfairly fired by her lover. You are trying to wrongfully paint moving on as giving up. Moving on to something better is not giving up - it's using your brain and not giving up your life by wasting it staying with a backstabbing wife.
The same way when you leave a job for a better paying job then you are not giving up - you are moving on to something better.
Heck even if we assume that him leaving the wife is giving up then there is nothing shameful or bad about "giving up" (leaving) a marriage that includes a cheating wife.
Staying in such a marriage and not moving on with someone better is wasting and giving up on your life.
Imagine he sleeps with her, then what? He's gotten his pound of flesh. The wife will feel way less guilty. They can now try to make that sordid mess work because then he's not morally better than the cheating wife, they are sort of in the same road and quite frankly, I don't care to root for him anymore. I know you probably think he shouldn't be morally better or something so I'll move on.
He sleeps with her and either starts a new life with her or just moves on with his life and find someone better. He is handsome and can easily find someone else.
Of course you can't root for him anymore because you are a woman who wants to live in the fantasy that you can cheat on your husband with his superior then turn a blind eye to him getting fired and still be forgiven.
Also if he slept with IU they wouldn't be "sort of in the same road" and yes he would still be morally better than the wife. There is a difference between cheating on a cheating backstabbing spouse and then cheating on a loyal spouse.
The wife cheated while the husband was loyal. That's way worse than the husband then realizing the wife to not be worth loyalty and then moving on with another woman.
The same way as a guy randomly punching an innocent bystander is not morally equal to the bystander then punching back. The person that punched the innocent party first is morally worse - I'm not sure how it's possible to claim them as morally equal.
People want to see a man trying his best to retain a moral character, not cause he cannot fall but because he chooses not to
Yea not people - women. Women wants to see a husband forgiving a betrayer of a wife.
why does choosing a higher moral standard mean your software is corrupted besides isn't it the other way around??
He is not choosing a higher moral standard - that's your subjective opinion. Him not staying with a betraying wife is not him being morally bad - it's him using his brain. You are trying very hard to make it seem like a husband leaving their cheating wife is not behaving morally - you are opinion is frankly ridiculous. Choosing to stay with a cheating wife when you can easily get with another beautiful woman is not choosing a higher moral standard - it's being braindead stupid and controlled by a female writer who is more concerned about fulfilling the fantasies of her female viewers than writing a ML that's not stupid and fake.
why is the writer stupid for making him forgive when it's in keeping with his character??
The writing is bad because the writer is creating a character that behave so dumb and unrealistic that it's impossible to sympathize with his decisions unless you are woman or a cuck. His character being consistently dumb and unrealistic doesn't make it good writing in a drama that focuses on human relationships.
No human being is weaker for choosing forgiveness, Ever.
I never used the word weak - I used the word dumb. Also your argument is lacking some nuance. A husband who can't get anything better than his cheating wife is not strong for forgiving her. He is doing so because it's easier and better than the alternative. When a person is put in the situation as ML there is no easy path - there are however a dumb path and a less dumb path. Staying with a cheating wife when you have an alternative to create a new and better life with someone else is dumb.
It takes a strength I'm not sure you can appreciate and from the way you're talking, you think people should choose the easier route.
As I said in some contexts the act of leaving a wife and moving on takes more strength. Also I couldn't care how much strength an action takes - doesn't make it not dumb.
I'm pretty sure being a suicide bomber and killing yourself for a cause you believe in also takes some kind of strength knowing you are dying and blowing yourself up - doesn't make it not dumb and immoral.
You should only take the harder route when there are clear signs of a better reward for doing so. That's not the case for ML. If he stays with the wife then he's stuck with a cheater of a wife when he could get with a better woman and enjoy life more instead of knowing he's spending his life with a wife that had him as a second choice and was fucking another man behind his back.
And if you think he should get divorced so that people don't call him a fool then I guess reputation in the eyes of others before forgiveness really matters to you.
I think he should divorce because staying with a backstabbing wife is worse than the alternative. There is no good reason to forgive her when he has a clear alternative ready.
When I wrote about reputation I wrote that in the context of giving examples of why some people might forgive a cheating spouse. In many parts of the world divorce for a woman is a hit on their reputation and that's sometimes a reason for women to forgive. In the case of a man then him being divorced is less of a hit on his reputation than people knowing him as a cuck.
The comment was written in the context of me explaining the reasons women and men might forgive cheating. And that they are pretty much never doing so unconditionally.
You might think it's a dumb reason for a divorce but being known as a cuck by your friends and potentially family is not going to be fun either. And you really need a good reason and reward to stay with a backstabbing wife knowing all the negative consequences of doing so especially when you can get another woman and avoid all those negative consequences while also spending your life with a potentially loyal wife.
I have an idea of this because I have experienced Unconditional forgiveness years ago, it's life-changing and still changing it till today and if you say the One who forgave me shouldn't have then thank the Almighty God they didn't ask you because I wouldn't be where or who I am without it.
If this wasn't your parent then you most likely didn't experience "unconditional" forgiveness. You were likely forgiven because the person doing so found some benefit in doing so.
Also I couldn't say whether or not he should or shouldn't forgive you - I got no clue what you did and why he forgave you.
I would love to see an in-depth story about a couple healing after the woman cheated, haven't found any. Though I'd prefer it to be written by a man but I will keep searching. Do you know any?
I don't - I would never watch such a drama to begin with because I already know how it's going to play out. Any drama like that is going to make a bunch of excuses as to why the woman cheated and how the husband was neglecting her. The husband will come to the conclusion that he's the reason she cheated and then forgive her - end of story. I'm not into that.
That said whether it's written by a woman or a man might be irrelevant if it's a KD regardless because the target audience will always be predominantly women (which is probably why so few screenwriters are male I guess) so it's most likely going to play out the same way regardless. KD are made to profit the producers/TV stations and so the writers are obviously going to write the characters and story on what they expect the target audience will enjoy because that's the type of story the producers and TV stations would accept.
Also, please how do I quote pieces of a person's comment? I can't get the hang of it, keeps saying the quote is too long no matter what... Thanks.
If you wanna quote a segment of a comment you have to highlight that segment and quote icon pops-up.
I've really liked this discussion, a lot of great and lively posts here.
PDH decided to not sleep with IU and stay with his wife because it's a fictional story written by a woman while also having the target audience as the female demographic. The writer either got no clue how men in such a situation would behave or purposely wrote the behavior as she did because she knows her target audience.xxxzxxx:
This is a story about a middle-aged man who's fundamentally good and decent, who overcomes adversity and learns to be happy. The decent man gets protected by a younger and intensely loyal woman, who unconditionally loves him. It's designed to appeal to men. I think @mvfoley1215 does a great job explaining why men find PDH so likeable. It's because people like him aren't that common - I wish more of us could be the better versions of ourselves.
Yea no - how it deals with relationships and emotions is how you determine whether it's written by and/or for women. A drama not primarily targeting female audience would never have had the ML not fuck the FL after finding his wife cheating with his superior. The way ML is written is how a woman would write a male character.
PDH doesn't go to physical infidelity after finding out about the affair, he commits emotional infidelity. He's already depressed, he considers suicide before even knowing about the affair. The healing he needs isn't sexual (how is having sex with LJA going to make him feel better?), it's emotional support. I don't think it takes much effort for him to reject her advances because he's not tempted, it's not a headache he needs. But with the emotional affair he goes in head-first.
Having said all that I didn't really like PDH, he was not my cup of tea as a character and while not wanting to lose his marriage is a good enough reason to fight for it, the writer was too wishy-washy with the whole wife thing (seriously did they end up together or not??!). I was objectively rooting to see them make it and the road they would take (I mostly root for forgiveness between married couples and seeing how it is achieved). Maybe because she's a woman the writer didn't know how to flesh out his psyche and how he would go about it when choosing forgiveness due to his personal moral code?? but the phone call near the end asking what the wife wanted, waaas what?? the sign he's trying? I didn't get it.
I was also unsure on my first couple of viewings. I think PDH makes his intentions clear during the fight with the wife ("I don't want to make you miserable just to make it easier for me. I just don't know how to end this relationship we've maintained for 20 years"). Before the fight, he tells the monk ("I'm forcing it. I'm forcefully holding on to a heart that wants to fly away") and on the bus ride to see him, we see birds flying away. There are moments where he can't bear to go home to his wife, he's so disgusted with her ("A wife who comes back is more detestable. She's detestable for trying hard. She's detestable no matter what she does. It's a matter of do you endure if for 3 years before you get a divorce, or endure it for 10 years before you get a divorce"). The phone call at the end is significant because of his wife asking for beer - that's what she buys when she wants to have a 'talk'. And then after that she flies away, and we never see her with him again, except in the family photo that PDH looks at before he breaks down into tears mourning his broken marriage.
PDH forgives one person a lot, it's LJA ("When you really know someone, nothing they do ever bothers you"). But he never says anything even remotely like that to his wife, he never forgives her.
I think that he could forgive her but not end up with her, he could also forgive her after a long time. But do you really think he didn't at all? Because that was one of the few things I liked about his character.
I agree that he could forgive her after a long time, and I think he made some progress, but I feel like one year probably wasn't enough for that. We know he didn't hate her since he had pictures of her and his kid on his office desk at the end. But I don't know if that's enough to say he forgave her. It's hard to say cause the most important conversation (what they talked about right before she flew away) was off-screen.
What I liked was that he *tried* to forgive, he tried to keep the marriage together and he fought hard for his wife. He couldn't overcome his own feelings of betrayal, but he made a good-faith effort. And that's the best I could ever expect from anyone. True forgiveness is so hard. Even someone like the monk with all of his spiritual practice/training still couldn't let go of his guilt and forgive himself for abandoning his family and lover until 20 years.
I think if PDH had succeeded, he would've asked his wife to stay. But the sad thing is that it wouldn't have even mattered, his wife at no point genuinely wanted to still be with him. She took every opportunity possible to expose the affair and hasten their relationship's end.
"When you really know someone, nothing they do ever bothers you". I don't agree. Maybe in the honeymoon stage of knowing someone but not forever. Take it to 5yrs of being friends and she taps his phone that invasively and he'll be super bothered. Also familiarity can breed contempt.
I completely agree. The way I interpreted it is that love allows you to look past the things that bother you. His brothers annoyed him a lot and were burdens to him, but he never stopped loving them. Familiarity breeding contempt - their mother was constantly annoyed to have to live with her idiotic kids, but she still loved them. I wonder if infidelity is different because it makes you wonder whether you knew the other person at all. Who was this person that you trusted so much?
This is a story about a middle-aged man who's fundamentally good and decent, who overcomes adversity and learns to be happy. The decent man gets protected by a younger and intensely loyal woman, who unconditionally loves him. It's designed to appeal to men. I think @mvfoley1215 does a great job explaining why men find PDH so likeable. It's because people like him aren't that common - I wish more of us could be the better versions of ourselves.Vicariously:
I only quoted one small snippet since I can't quote your whole comment. Thank you for your perspective. It's greatly appreciated. Closer to my own views of MM.
Quoting also to keep this thread alive.
LucyL:
I only quoted one small snippet since I can't quote your whole comment. Thank you for your perspective. It's greatly appreciated. Closer to my own views of MM.
Quoting also to keep this thread alive.
Thanks! There's a My Mister forum on soompi that still seems pretty active, along with a fansite which are both pretty interesting.
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